1878 cc Trade Dollar

Ok First off I know nothing about coins or the value other then what i seen on the internet. But i do have a few question about this coin.

I have two daughters and when they were born there grandpa gave both of them a silver dollar. Out of curisty I carried both of these coins to a dealer this morning and one coin was no problem but then he looked at the Carson City silver dollar i had.

First guy said nothing, he just stared at it and said he would have to get a second opionion. The second guy studied it like a book. He then came to the conclusion it was a fake. The reason he said that was because if you are looking at the head of it and flip it over the coin is upside down. The only problem i have with this story is that it took him 20 minutes to come up with it. Like I said i am no coin collector and it shouldnt take that long to discover this. Then he talked like it happens all the time.

My question is, does this sound correct?
He said all american coins should be head up when flipped, is this true?
If this is a fake does this happen often?
This coin looks old but is still in good shape, it appears it has been circulated for a long time, if it was a fake wouldnt it look more new?
When I asked him how much it would be worth if it wasnt a fake he said less then a 1000.00 but to me there is nothing wrong with the coin, it still looks good. Could this also be true?

Other then the one problem he said that it is a very, very, good fake. He stated it even stumped him. What scares me the most when i got back to work i was telling a co worker where I went and he told me that this guy got over on him some coins. Problem is i live in a small town and there is no one else.

Any help would be appriaciated.

Thank you
Jerry

Hi Jerry, welcome. I can't tell you whether the coin you have is counterfeit or not. Posting a picture of both sides would help. I am not an expert on Trade Dollars, but Rusty or someone here will be able to help you. The dealer is correct that US coins are always designed in "coin turn" mode. So that when you "flip" the coin the other side is right side up. I can tell you that what you have is called a rotated die. It can happen on authentic coins and when it does it is a mint error. So your coin may not be a fake. There is a website that lists all known rotated dies on authentic coins but it is offline for now. If your coin is authentic and is a rotated die, it might be more valuable than if it was not rotated. But I am getting ahead of myself. Hang on. Someone will get with you. And again, welcome.

i will try to post some pics of it this evening and thank you.

Hello there Jerry!

There are two ways to consider your question. Each depends on your meaning of the word "flip". The two ways to flip a coin are top to bottom and side to side.

A TOP TO BOTTOM FLIP would be as follows; Hold your trade dollar so that Ms Liberty's head is up and then rotate the top of the coin away from you until Ms Liberty's head is on the bottom and her portrait is upside down. You should now be looking at the reverse side of the coin and the Eagle's head is at the top with the words "Trade Dollar" at the bottom.

A SIDE TO SIDE FLIP would be as follows; Start with the Trade Dollar obverse looking at you with Ms Liberty's head at the top of the coin and the date at the bottom. Now, turn the coin sideways until you are looking at the reverse side of the coin. You should now see the eagle UPSIDE DOWN and the words Trade Dollar appearing at the top of the coin, but upside down and backwards.

If you flip your coin using both methods and the results are as I described them, then you have a correctly minted "Coin Turn" Trade Dollar.

However, as Garryn told you, if the results of your flip test show the top of the obverse not perfectly aligned with the bottom of the reverse, then you may have a "rotated die" coin, which would be a very nice rarity to own.

There have been a few American coins purposely minted so that the top of the obverse matches with the top of the reverse instead of the bottom of the reverse. This is called a "medal turn".
One notable example of a medal turn coin is the Gobrecht Silver Dollar (1836-1839). The coin was minted with various die arrangements including a regular coin turn as well as a medal turn in 1836, 1837 and 1839. I am fortunate to own both an 1836 original "coin turn" Gobrecht Dollar as well as an 1839 restrike Gobrecht Dollar with the "medal turn"...shown in the image below.

Try the two different flip tests Jerry and tell us what you see.

Belay Off

Ok,I flipped the coin as describe and it is wrong. When you flip the coin backward the Eagle is upside down.
When you flip the coin from side to side both sides are up.

Sorry I hit the button to soon.

Also when you flip the coin it is perfect. the top on one side is align perfect with the top on the other side.

Personal Opinion.
Do you think this coin is a fake or for real?
If fake does this happen alot?
I have tried to take pics of it but when i do the pictures come out all blurry. I am going to try something different because i want someone that knows coins to see this coin. I am not a coin person but it just dont look fake to me. I did have my father in law take the coin to a coin collector (not a dealer) and told my father in law not to mention the fake part. The collector looked at it and wanted it. He offered four more different coins to him to trade for it. Of Coarse we didnt trade, I would really just like to know what we here.